Date of interview: Feb 13, 2013
IDL Dream Yoga Interviewing Protocol
Joseph Dillard, LCSW., Ph.D.
What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?
1. communion with past
2. communion in present
3. communion with future
Tell me a dream you remember. It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.
18 Jan 66, 10:00 PM
Reoccurring flying. At my wife's (Betty) apt or home. Her mother lives there too. I've parked my motorcycle outside (all this not clear or distinct). There are abandoned concrete buildings nearby on the side and top of hills. I am in one. Suddenly there is much lurching. Seems like an earthquake. I'm not frightened but powerless to move on my own from out of building. There are others in the building wondering what is going on. We just stick with it until we can get out of building.
Out of building I feel a kind of "magnetic" pull in a single direction. Am being pulled towards rolling hills, barren-looking hills. People—in a stream of humanity--are being pulled backwards as if they are trying to fight the pull. I face in the direction of the pull and start moving in its direction and soon find myself flying by having my hands out a little to the sides and turning them properly as a sort of rudder. It is a delicate movement of hands that controls my flight. If I tip my hands too much too soon, I go too high too fast.
Others—in a long river of humanity--are below me now. I shout to try to gain their attention. No one hears. I am passing some up. There are some telephone or power lines; I come in contact with a single strand. I grab hold, but am not affected (hurt). (It is covered with black, frayed insulation). I turn a somersault over the wire. Now trying to stay as close to ground as possible. Not yet greatly skilled at this. Not afraid. Very curious and a little lonely.
Why do you think that you had this dream?
I had recently become homeless (as of mid-October 1965) and living temporarily in the Santa Monica garage of new friends Russ and Patti Pratt, whom I had met in late October at Big Sur Hot Springs (soon to become Esalen). Because of the intensity of that first meeting at the Hot Springs, Russ and Patti invited me to stay with them if I ever got to
I had begun having powerful spiritual experiences, beginning in June 1964,
since the death of my father the previous May 1964. By September 1965 my wife
Betty (as well as my mother) had become frightened at the changes in my
behavior and interests and asked for divorce. I had left everything behind to
enter a wilderness period beginning in the Los Angeles .
Santa Cruz Mountains
During the week I spent in
I “happened” to meet Orlando C. Williams (the Mormon patriarch who had
pronounced a patriarchal blessing on my head at age 9 or 10, my mother being
his recording secretary) on the sidewalk in Westwood. Of course Williams did not recognize me (now in my early 30s), but I recognized him. I stopped him to say, "Brother Williams, you don't recognize me but I recognize you. My mother Ruth Clawson Kregg was your secretary. The things that you predicted in my blessing are now coming to pass, but no one believes me." Williams' eyes lit up when he heard my mother's name and retorted, "Who are these unbelievers?!" As if it were a regular occurrence we went on our respective ways without further interaction. Also I’d just made the
acquaintance of Ken Price on the phone, having learned he was on the board of editors
of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought.
If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?
These are the characters in the dream, besides yourself…
Betty, Betty’s mother, apartment, motorcycle, several concrete buildings, tall smoke stack, barren hills, river of humanity, telephone or power lines, ground
If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?
Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor? It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind. If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering - that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!
Hills, are you a character in
’s dream? Eugene
Hills, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see...
In the distance on one side are buildings and freeways and green; on the other side beyond me is a desert waste…
Hills, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?
I am peacefully observing whatever comes over or around or through me
Hills, what do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?
I am calm, silent, peaceful, observant.
Hills, what do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What are they?
Nothing to dislike
Hills, what aspect of
do you represent or most closely personify? Eugene
An eternal place. A witness
Hills, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?
(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)
Hills, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities: confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing? Why?
Confidence, 0-10. 10, I am what I am
Compassion, 0-10. 0, nothing to be compassionate about.
Wisdom, 0-10. 0, I make no judgments.
Acceptance, 0-10. 10, everything is as it is.
Inner Peace, 0-10. 10, I am that I am
Witnessing, 0-10. 10, that is what I do
Hills, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how?
Yes, I wouldn't be barren and would be concerned about sustaining life….
Hills, how would
life be different if he/she naturally scored like you do in all six of these
qualities all the time? Eugene
Without compassion and wisdom his life would not have meaning
Hills, if you could live _____’s life for him/her, how would you live it differently?
Hills, if you could live
life for him/her today, would you handle ’s
three life issues differently? If so, how? Eugene
Hills, what life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of
’s life? Eugene
Hills, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for
imagine that he/she is you and act as you would? Eugene
Only if he were away from society and by himself…
Hills, do you do drama? Do you get into playing the Victim, Persecutor, or Rescuer? If not, why not?
No, what for?
Hills, What is your secret for staying out of drama?
Hills, you are imaginary. Why should
pay attention to anything you say? Eugene
I represent an eternal place in him…
Hills, why do you think that you are in
’s life? Eugene
To remind him of an eternal place…
Hills, how is
most likely to ignore what you are saying to him/her? Eugene
He doesn't ignore me, but visits me frequently…
Hills, what would you recommend that he/she do about that?
Nothing to do about that…
Hills, why do you think
had this dream? Eugene
To give him a peaceful, confident perspective and setting to observe his life the world around him
Hills, why do you think (some dream event happened) or river of humanity) was in the dream?
perspective on and understanding of his life at particular period Eugene
Hills, why should
pay any attention to what you have said? Aren’t these just a projection of Eugene’s
own wishes and projections? Eugene
I am an eternal reference point
Thank you, Hills! And now a couple questions for the person that dreamed you:
What have you heard yourself say?
There is a peaceful, confident eternal place within me to go to when I want to get away from society and world activity
If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?
Learn to observe and witness without involvement…